Subject: Re: The family Tree. From: Ian Stewart-Koster Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 14:27:41 +1000 To: Alan Middleton-Stewart HI Alan, thanks for the email. Yes all's well with us- busy & financially underendowed as usual! I did start to upload a heap of family tree stuff to my signs website a year ago with the intention of making a big wesbite section of it, as the single file I created for Lorna's 60th birthday book was about 70 meg in size- too big for emailing. Our website hosts upgraded their servers, and did 'lose' some files, and I haven't checked to see if all these were still there or if some were missing. I've also had other stuff which has taken priority over family tree investigations this calendar year. However I have furthered a few distant Stewart branches in positive ways, in particular the branch from Frank Ben Stewart who married Alice Florence Nicholls- I have it updated down to about 1970. I wish I'd known then what I know now, as Zena MS died only 8 or 9 years ago in Surrey, and Cynthia her half sister died a few years before that, but both were alive & well when I was in UK in 1983-4. Unfortunatley except for recent dates, I know more about their branch than their descendants do- & it seems little family history was preserved, even orally. The other branch I have extended is that of Janet Stewart, the younger sister of Isabella Stewart Turnbull. Isabella was born 1801, died 1860, & was the mother of David the inventor & ship owner etc etc. I've been in touch with a french woman in Cuba who is a Scottish descendant of Janet Stewart. I found her partly by accident, when I was trying to see where certain second names came from, particularly 'Cesford' or Cessford, and a few other children's names- usually they were named after certain maternal or paternal aunts & uncles in a certain priority. I took a hunch & paid for some searches of old parish records in Scotland & was lucky enough to be rewarded with some small details such as specifically from which relative on which side their name came. Thet leads to new ideas & probes & further searches of assorted records & censuses shows you who stayed with whom on certain nights & you can slowly fill in the aunts & uncles & cousins lines if you're lucky & they were still in UK at that time. I'd built a semi-picture up of Janet's family, and through searching contacted this woman who was kind enough to show me some of what she kew were her ancestors & the details matched perfectly, except she had more info & a few edits which I was unaware of. Anyway your question 1- I'm not sure how I can break it down, but I'll try in a few days. You'll need a lot of sticky tape if you wish to reassemble it though. The file as sent was about right to print on a sheet of paper the size of a bedsheet. I'll see if I uploaded the book I did for Lorna-all 70 megs- though some parts have been superceded. Q.2. The ring...Would you be able to email me a photo or two of it please? I had discussion with Ian M-S & with Mum about five years ago about it. Both had some contrasting ideas. Both had merit, but I found myself disagreeing with certain possibilities which both suggested. My disagreement was based only on gut feelings based on research I've done, & this 'instinct' or hunches has served me well in the past. Briefly though, Charlo's mother was Elizabeth Janet O'Grady. She's still an enigma- I cannot find where or when she died- I feel it was circa 1936 in London, but all searches & paid-for death certs in logical names have been for the wrong person. She apparently married Vaughan Sheehan circa 1900, after her husband David Henry M-S, the Poona Stationmaster died. I have been right through INdian records, manually, on microfilm, as well as via computer, & UK records & find no record of a marriage like this. Vaughan apparently died in the Boer War & she then lived off his pension. There was some issue about this as she supposedly went back to Cork, her birthplace & was chased out, as living on an English pension she was presumed to be a spy by some locals, or some such story. Anyway from 1900-1935 I have no record of her living anywhere under any name. I have two letters of her dated January (1935 or 36, at Earl's Court, London) and I assume she died promtly/suddenly after that. Burial-no idea. I'd love to get a photo of Charlo's grave. Janet Macswiney did send me details of its location & I have that written down. It's just north of the centre of London by a few miles I think. "Lela" as Elizabeth Janet O'Grady/M-S/Sheehan called herself was staunchly against preserving family heritage & the few details she wrote down I've found to be 'erroneous', but understandibly so & I can't help wondering if she she was pregnant before her wedding. I have never found a wedding cert for her marriage to DH M-S in INdia in spite of looking over internet & microfilms in person till I was feeling like a zombie! She or they also don't feature in most of the Indian Civil (Service) Lists which I have on CD for a few of for assorted years between 1860 & 1935 of all civil/gov't/UK employees. That is particularly odd. DH M-S by all accounts was a bit of an idler or lazybones & did only as little as he could to survive. Severly unmotivated. DH M-S was born as DH Turnbull in Aug. 1849. I have his birth certificate in the name of Turnbull, born in Wallsend, which is where DH's parents were living at the time, staying DH's maternal grandparents at the Wallsend Railway Station. Circa 1858-59 the Turnbull family changed their surname to Stewart. Charlo's grandmother, or David Henry M-S's mother was Frances, nee Middleton. Frances' second name was Whitfield. I have her family extended a bit in both directions & am in touch with a descendant of her younger sister, Mary Ann, as well. I have yet to find a death cert for Frances, though I thought I may have been close. I'll have to recheck. I think she might have come back from India after the death of her son David the Inventor, and gone to stay with her sister Mary's family- nothing else ties in. Frances' mother certainly did this- she was staying with her daughter Mary's family when she was in her 70s- or more correctly they stayed with her. Mary or Mary Ann had been married twice. Anyway Charlo's grandparents were David Turnbull and Frances W Middleton. Frances' parents were Henry Middleton & the widow Mary Addison, nee Clegg. (Henry had been married before & his first wife Mary Ann nee Lavrick had died after childbirth in 1822. His second marriage was to the widow Mary Addison nee Clegg- this one was Frances' mother.) Anyhow Charlo's grandmother was Frances, born 23 Aug 1829 at Chirton, Nbl. She would have had the ring. Frances' husband was David Turnbull born 12 July 1826 in Dundee, Scotland. He's the one who was the inventor & ship owner & who drowned off the coast of India on 17 January 1871 & who is buried at Jesmond, or at least the tomb there is a memorial to him. He's the one who changed the family's surname from Turnbull to Stewart circa 1858-9. He was also bankrupted two years before his death, according to notes I found in the indian court registers... At the time of his death he was a machinery salesman & must have been highly regarded, as he was one of the only ones named, out of 60ish deaths when the ship went down. Charlo's great grandmother, was born Isabella Stewart on 12 Feb. 1801 in Alyth, Perthshire. Daughter of William Stewart, a linen weaver. The family moved to Dundee. Isabella married David Turnbull, a ship's carpenter. David Turnbull was born I don't know where, but it was apparently in 1804 in Dundee, though I can't yet verify this which concerns me. There was another David Turnbull born in Dundee that year, and he is not of our line. Anyhow our David Turnbull, ship's carpenter, died alone in Jarrow, Durham, on 13 Nov. 1864 of Delirium Tremens. For some reason he was not put in with the family memorial of his wife Isabella & son David at (old) Jesmond cemetery. His grave has since been moved anyhow to make way for the freeway, but I'd like to get a copy of the headstone one day. If the ring was about them, then Isabella Stewart would have had it. The Scottish custom in those days was that a woman retained her maiden name/surname as a second name upon marrying, so when she married David Turnbull in Dundee on 19th Dec 1823, she became Isabella Stewart Turnbull (with no hyphen). That's the name she has on the tomb at Jesmond. Isabella died on 12th Oct. 1860 in Jarrow. Oh, Isabella's mother was Jean, nee Anderson. So far I have not been able to go back further with the male line of David Turnbull, except a little on William Stewart his father-in-law's side, but there's no Craigiehall connection there, just a coincidence of surname. So I cannot name David's mother who in theory could/would have had the ring if it was around then. Has the ring ever been approximately dated? I'd love to know an expert's current opinion as to the century of thereabouts of it's origin. I have been trying to build up a better picture of the times & travels of the "Turnbull later Stewart" family through the entire 1800s. It's fascinating. I'd hoped that would lead me to more clues to follow. So far it's worked well, but it's a tough & great hobby-better than any of the TV investigation programs as this investigation is 'real'! I'm still out on various limbs with just open air beyond the frail branches at the moment, but with time a spiderweb net might connect more branches up. What I can say about the family name change, which was a relief to finally get past, was that David Trunbull the ship's carpenter & his wife Isabella nee Stewart DID travel a lot between Dundee, Edinburgh & Newcastle. That was unusual for most families in those times. I don't know if they travelled in their own boat, or via paid passages. They had a few kids- the oldest was William Turnbull, named after his maternal grandfather, (unusual that the maternal one came first) & born 1824 in Dundee. He must have died young as I found no trace of him after his birth(not even a death). David Turnbull (our David the inventor) in 1826; Janet Stewart Turnbull in 1829 (Stewart was just her second name, and she was named after her mother Isabella's younget sister Janet); John Sturrock Turnbull 1832 (I haven't yet located the origin of Sturrock, but I feel this John/Jack was the ship's captian who at some stage, & some world location, threw a fellow shipmate overboard in a fit & then fearing the law fled the country leaving behind a wife & family. I've traced him for a while till about 1861 then lost track of him). The next sibling was Helen Pullar Turnbull (4 Apr 1835, Dundee-30 Oct 1921, Newcastle upon Tyne). She later became known as Ellen & married a butcher Thomas Miller, (so she was Ellen Miller) & is mentioned in letters as Effie Whinfield's husband's grandmother. She knew of Craigiehall & its traditions. I have traced her family a long way & am in touch with descendants of Ellen/Helen. I don;t know yet where 'Pullar' came from. The next Turnbull sibling was George (1838-1895), born Dundee, died Woolwich. Worked in the shipdocks/shipyards as an engine fitter. He was married twice. Second marriage choildless. First marriage produced a daughter Lilly in Newcastle, but I lost track of her- she may have died before she reached her teens, I suspect. I have Geroge's assorted marriage & death certs. The next sibling was William Turnbull, born I don't know where (at sea maybe?) in 1845, died in Edinburgh of whooping cough in 1846 aged 17 months. I have the specific dates written down. The final sibling was Isabella Turnbull, named after her mother, born in Edinburgh in 11 Feb 1848 not too long before her oldest living brother, our David Turnbull, married Frances Middleton in Nov. 1948. What is interesting about those ones is I lost track of John (presumed he fled if he was the guilty party in manslaughter), Janet I lost track of (presumed she died young or married very young, more likely died), but that they moved freely between Scotland & Northumberland as evidenced by the census details. All were known as surname Turnbull, till David (our David) married Frances Middleton & on his marriage cert they bring in the 'White Ridley' second names, and on his son David Henry Turnbull's birth cert in 1949 at Wallsend, White & Ridley are mentioned, as well as on his daughter Mary (known as Minnie)'s birth cert in 1861. After that he drops the White Ridley bit, but it featured three times- I have all birth certificates here. By 1861 in the census, and thereafter in marriage certs, The siblings George & Isabella have added Stuart as their second name, but they remained Turnbulls, while our David has relegated Turnbull as his second name & has adopted Stewart as his surname, and all his children are now Stewarts where they were born turnbulls (except the youngest Frank Ben who was born a Stewart to begin with in 1860 (well to be correct he was Francis Benjamin, known as Frank Ben or Ben-he died in 1919 in Bombay after becoming a photographer & a mechanic. It's unclear what he died of, but I can't help wondering if it mightn't have been snakebite or something like that.) Going back to Isabella Stuart Turnbull, born 1848- she lived with her father the ship's carpenter & her brother George in Jarrow for the 1861 census-interestingly they were immediately next door to their sister Helen Pullar Turnbull & her husband Thomas Miller. Isabella married Frank Punter in Woolsich in 1879. I have this line traced & was in touch with a descendant, but they knew nothing historical of use to us about her & had a few minor details in their history wrong. Now fixed. At some stage circa 1880-1885, the two oldest "formerly Turnbull now surnamed Stewart" sons our David Henry (b.1849) & John William( 'Jack', b.6 May 1855), now call themselves Middleton-Stewart. They each married sisters Elizabeth Janet O'Grady & Winnifred O'Grady while in India. They mystery is threefold: 1. what caused the oldest line to change from Turnbull to Stewart around 1858, and that line of David's younger siblings to adopt Stuart as a second name, while retaining Turnbull- it must have been something significant. 2. What caused brothers DH & JW to suddenly add the hyphenated Middleton to the Stewart around the time of their marriage to the O'Grady's? While Frank Ben did not take Middleton at all. Henry Middleton was NOT landed gentry, but a worker- a railway station master, which incidentally his grandson DH M-S also became- interesting strong maternal influence there! DH M-S was obviously named after both grandfathers, too- David & Henry. Frances was not the oldest sibling & as far as I can see inheritances there would be negligible. 3. Where did the Stewart part come from? I've avoided mentioning the West Indies, slavery, plantations etc so far as some parts of the legend do not fit, and interestingly there was a West Indian trading company called Stewart Turnbull (but NOT a relation that I can connect!) I have traced that line for a while & they came from a different part of Scotland in the 1700s- more like Glasgow from memory. There are other smaller quandries too- our David Turnbull, later David Stewart DID sell plantations in the West Indies. This was circa 1860. However slavery was abolished by the 1830s, when he was four years old. How did 'we' come to own them when his family appeared mainly in Dundee/Edinburgh/Newcastle 1830-1860? David was listed as being a West Indian planter on his marriage cert to Francis in 1949. A Planter in those days was actually a plantation OWNER, not a worker, even if an absentee owner. David was born 1826 & married Frances in 1849, aged 23. Somehow in his years aged I guess 15 to 22 he spent time in the West Indies. Which Islands? I'm inclined to think somewhere between Jamaica & Puerto Rico (just gut feelings). How & where did our David T S, the inventor get his education to become an inventor- the school of hard knocks? David & Frances' 3rd child, Frances Ann Turnbull was born in Cuba on 19 July 1854, so they were obviously travelling there then. I can't see him going there & buying the plantations with not much money- therefore he ought to have inherited them- from whom? Not an uncle as they were all younger than his father & I have them all firmly in UK, therefore probably/possibly a great uncle? Not his grandfather DT the ship's carpenter as the poor fellow died a lonely death of the DTYs with no friends and also did NOT change his surname to incorporate Stewart when all the rest DID change. Perhaps he was ostracised by his relatives for not changing? There was a hint that a David T, the inventor, used to stay with a former Governor of Jamaica when he was over there. I've given this some thought...would the Governor of Jamaica take in as a 'boarder' just any old passing yachtsman? Probably not. Why then our David? Perhaps he was a freind or a relative- however distant. I started to look up Governors of Jamaica to see if there was a Scotish connection. I'll attach a file of them all. So far I have not pursued that avenue, but around 1846 there was a Northumberland-ite as Governor. Perhaps he knew the Turnbulls. Where did the White Ridley part come in & then why did it get dropped out? I searched the White Ridley family's genealogy, and one thing is certain- David doesn't feature as a family name, nor did any branches seem to grow in our direction in any hazy way that I could fathom. Somehow ancestors of ours ended up in the West Indies & somehow ended up with money & land. No travelling by ship in those days was cheap. ................................................................................ Back to your email & last question: I'll append assorted notes as I typed them over the years, below all this. No 3. 3a/…When did the Family Ring come into being? I don't know at all. 3b/…Do you have any idea when the curse put on the ring? No. 3c/…Do you know who put the curse on the ring? No 3d/…Do you know why the curse was put on the ring? No. 'Legend' says it was because some holder of the ring upset someone else, somewhere. Possibly that's true. Therefore the ring existed before the curse did. If the curse actually existed, then the wearer & her husband were both there at the time of the offense. If the curse existed, then I doubt that the occasion which caused it to be 'launched', happened in UK. Therefore it was more likely overseas. (o)Unless someone upset maybe a gypsy in UK, otherwise it was: (i) In the West Indies? Did a plantation owner upset a worker severely? (or kill one accidentally in a machine) (ii) At sea? Did a ship's captain upset a seaman? Did a passenger upset a seaman? (or toss someone overboard-but that was a brotherly line...) Were we really pirates & stole from someone maybe? (iii) In India? Did someone upset some religious festival, rather than a person. Who would apply a curse upon someone else in those days- a woman or a man? A 'commoner' or a religious high person? If an offense occurred, Why a curse, as opposed to just slitting their throat when no one was looking, which I assume happened in those countries? Why would someone curse an 'object' (the ring) as opposed to just a person? Is the ring especially beautiful for the curser to focus upon it rather than a handkerchief, neclace or earrings? What was the offense? An accidental death? Ruining a holy ceremony? Rape? Something trivial done to someone with a quick temper? What? What was the curse, in your opinion? I have heard versions which grew to accomodate the variations...that doesn't help. Charlo lived to be about 54, while the earliest version of the curse I heard was that the wearer's children & successive oldest sons would either not reach 18, or else not reach 50. I wonder how many other edits the curser applied? Why 18, then 50- why not just 50? I don't mean to trivialise it all- I'm just being blindly naive, as by dropping all assumptions, I've been more successful in gaining inroads to this mysterious family's activity. Looking at facts: DT the ship's carpenter died aged 60 in 1864. I'd say no curse upon him except love of alcohol-why was he depressed- just his wife's death, or something more? Why did he not change his surname to Stewart when his kids & brothers & sister incorporated it? DT/DTS the inventor died aged 43 in 1871. DH M-S, the station master died aged 47- a few weeks off 48 in 1897. His brothers John & Ben lived to old age, so they were not apparently affected by curses. CE M-S/Charlo died aged 54 in 1935. Ivor M-S died aged 37 in 1944. Charles John M-S died aged 18 in 1955- actually he was 3 months off being 19 years old. The idea of the curse stopping them reaching 50 as I'd always heard, failed when Charlo exceeded 50. If the curse was put on, AND IF IT WAS SUPPOSED TO STOP ANYONE REACHING 50, IT HAD TO BE DONE (OOPS sorry about the caps) then it had to have been declared probably in the 1864-70 time period. That suggests India as a location. DH M-S was known to not treat Indians kindly. Did he do something, & maybe his father's drowning was just a coincidence that fitted the story? What is the actual age of the ring? Jeweller's opinion? If it's "Bessie's" - which Bessie? It's too easy to jump in on the first Bessie/Elizabeth you get to...that's the trouble. That's the limit of my analysis & ideas on the curse! Re the family-I'm inclined to think that perhaps we were Stewarts, & changed the name to the 'safer' border name of Turnbull to escape the Jacobite persecution perhaps in the mid 1700s, then in 1858, say 100 years after the family decided that the coast was clear, it was time to change back & reclaim the heritage, but that by then most branches were content with Turnbull & so took the softer option of adding Stuart as a second name, except for David-the/our senior line. That is 'feasible' to me. Proof is another matter, but who can show me a better explanation for the nAME CHANGING, ignoring the Middleton part & just working on the Turnbull to Stewart part. Somewhere in the 1700s, some branch went to the West Indies, bought land got money somehow & got plantations all before the 1800s I am certain. Somehow David Turnbull the ship's carpenter learned his trade. At sea or on land? A Shipwright, and a Ship's Carpenter were two entirely different things. The shipwright built ships in a dock. The carpenter went on voyages & did repairs enroute. I have seen both names applied to DT-1804, but mostly carpenter. That explains how he got around, but not how he talked the captain of the assorted ships to allowing his entire family to come too. Did he build the ship that DT the inventor named Fanny after Frances Middleton? No idea. I won't presume it. Perhaps it was bought with 'old'money? I must sign off-here's a bit more to mull over" .................................................................................. Some info about Charlo from my notes: I do not have an exact marriage date, to Gertrude Edith Mary Allsopp, (known as Diana) offhand. I'll recheck. Charles Edward M-S was known as Charlo to a lot of people, and signed familiar letters accordingly. Charles, in a letter to Effie Whinfield dated 14 Oct 1935, says he was born in India, and sent Home to be educated, returning to India to the Civil Service, Police Dept. (but that was a long while after his father's death of 1897) He got a commission in a regiment when the Boer War broke out, and felt he was one of the youngest Officers in the Boer war (18-ish at the beginning). In the same letter he says he " married at the age of 25 into the family of Allsopp beer but no money of theirs unfortunately comes our way. In 1907 my wife presented me with twin sons (named...). I came to India and was appointed an Officer in the Indian Police, and in due course my twin sons went to London University and Ivor took law and got into the army through the 'varsity. He is just about to get his captaincy and next year when he goes Home on leave will be called to the Bar as a Barrister-at-Law. Donald took to engineering and got the degrees of A.C.G.I. and B.Sc. and I hope shortly will be A.M.I.C.E. also. He is in Burma and very probably my wife will accompany him Home next year about April when he goes on leave. Ivor the blighter recently married and asks me to be prepared to be a grandfather; I have another son Colin, only 13 years of age who is at school in South Africa under the care of my wife's people. I am the only son of my father and (touch wood) am hale and hearty enough to have won two open tennis competitions recently as well as in golf despite the fact that I am about to become a grandfather. As Ivor is about six feet in height, I regret to say that I might have some difficulty in laying him over my knee and spanking him for turning me into a grandfather" (Charo was just 5'6") The Indian Officer's List for 1936, as well as the 1933 list lists most of his career. The "Historys of Service 1875-1955 Vol. 12" has also summarised it as follows: Joined Indian Police Service as Asst. District Supt 7th June 1909 till 1918. On Military duty (WW1) 7 Nov 1918 to 4 June 1920. He was also declared District Superintendant of Police in Dec 1918. Principal, Police Training School, Saugon, Apr 1928. Officiating Deputy Inspector General April 1932, and again March 1933, confirmed Nov. 1933, finally becoming Deputy Inspector General of Central Province, India. War Service: RSA Field Force 1900-1902 (Boer War), Queen's Medal with 3 clasps, King's Medal with 2 clasps, Special promotion for an act of gallantry in the field. Natal Zulu Rebellion 1906. Zululand Field Force Medal with 1 clasp. Certificate of Commendation Afghan Campaign 1919. Staff of 2nd Division as Assistant Provosy Marshall in the Army". A letter from his mother, Lela, to him, mentions his wage as 550 pounds per annum. He was in perfect health in Oct-Nov, if his letters reflect his state, prior to his sudden death in December 1935, aged 53(ish) of, according to his death certificate: a) cardiac failure & (b) lobar pneumonia. He was not too worried about being unfaithful to his wife Di, either... I have alarming evidence of this-assorted letters he probably wishes weren't found! ................................................................... Some info about DH M-S, (David Henry) ,Charlo's father, from my notes: His parents were living at Wallsend at the time of the 1851 census, staying with the Middletons at the railway station. Name- David & Frances Turnbull. It would appear the Henry in his name, David Henry, comes from his mother's father, Henry Middleton. Ushaw College records list under 'Arrivals' on July 14th 1863- David Stewart, aged 13 (born Aug 31st), and John Stewart, aged 8 (born May 6th), both from Newcastle. They stayed until July 14th 1864. That's it. (copy of Ushaw letter held by I.S-K) That's David Henry (born 1849) & John William (born 1855). According to a letter from Charles, his son, to Effie Whinfield, DT sent his wife Frances, and son DH to India, in connection with his patent for cotton machinery, to await his arrival from the West Indies. He was almost there when the ship he was on went down. After DT's death, DH returned to Northumberland with his mother, and after her death, he returned to India with his brother Jack, to be much later followed by his younger brother Ben (Frank). (I slightly doubt that sequence exactly as it is I.S-K) DH was a Railway Station Master at Poona, (now spelled Pune) C.P. ( Central Provinces), India. According to his wife, Elizabeth Janet nee O'Grady, (who calls herself Lela in later life, the widow of Vaughan Sheehan but I can find no record of that marriage, supposedly in 1898-99): David Henry told her he was 21 or 22 when his father drowned. (that puts DT's death at 1870-71 approx, not 1864 as on the tomb, when David would have been only 15- I'm inclined to think the tomb has it wrong here- or a genealogist's transcription error- recheck the cemetery...later my hunch was correct-he drowned in 1871) She also says it was roughly 13 or 14 years- her guesswork, not certainties- before she married DH, which puts the drowning at 1868 ish, with a vague variation as we don't really know when she married him. She says DH was 33-34 when he married her, but that she never bothered to find out how old he was, as she was 'under 20' at the time.... something seems fishy to me. That puts the date of marriage at 1882-3 ish, and Lela's birth date at well, if she was 18 and married in 1881 as she insists, she was born circa 1863. If she was 20, almost, she was born circa 1861. If she married in 1880, not 1881, she could have been born in 1859 even. I have found no record of her birth or marriage- we have only her word for these loose dates. She says DT had a brother, a ship's captain & a married man, who threw a crewman overboard in a fit of temper, and fearing the law, he 'disappeared', some say to America. His wife never knew. She says DT himself had a Plantation in the West Indies where uncle Jack was born. (Uncle Jack would be John William Turnbull Stewart who married Winnie O'Grady). She says he sold the planbtation when negro slavery was abolished, and the family went to Bombay. OK the gist of that story may be ok, but slavery was abolished in general by 1836, when DT was about 10 years old. He wouldn't have gone to West Indies & conducted plantation sales as a ten year old I think. I'll allow her this story deviation though. She says DH's mother, Frances nee Middleton, was present at her & DH's wedding in India. DT was dead by then. Lela 's mother & brother were there too. Frances was living with her & DH when she died, she says. She also says DH came to India straight from Ushaw College (Durham) on a billet. (That's like a sponsored employment opportunity) (Ushaw college is now a Catholic Seminary, but was a school then- DH & his brother John left Ushaw in 1863, according to Ushaw records. DH would have been 14 years old) Lela says he was in the ICS at Nassick (ICS = Indian Civil Service). He resigned that job after an altercation with his boss- he was continually unpunctual, and he objected to Indians working in the same office as him. ( I have not found an ICS list with him on staff yet, though I have looked.) Long after that, she says, he joined the GIPR and was given straight away the billet as Station Master. He was offered better jobs but he said no, he was content to stay as he was. Many years after, he met me. He was known to be a confirmed bachelor- but he met me on 3rd Feb., on 14th he proposed (had a hat raffle...his name came out), and we married on 7th July same year. (whatever year that really was...1880, 81 or 82) At Charles' baptism in India, in 1881, he names himself David Henry Middleton-Stewart, surname hyphenated. At his death in India he's just DH Stewart. Charlo was born in 1881. DH & Elizabeth/Lela were married on 7th July in whichever year it really was. ................................................................................ Some info about David Turnbull, (b.1826) later David Turnbull Stewart, DH M-S's father, from my notes Two of hIs daughters-in-law mention in old letters from the 1930s that David had a brother (named John) who was a ship's captain, who threw a man overboard in a bit of a fit of rage, and then fearing the authorities, he fled, possibly to West Indies or USA, leaving behind a wife & family, and that's the last we heard of him. They also both state that David claimed he was the eldest of his line of the family, and was the son of a David. David had a 'yacht' (ie a sailing boat of some scale or another) which he'd named "Fanny" after his wife, on which he'd used to travel, we understand, to the West Indies & to India, for business dealings. He sold it, but while on its way to the new owners, it was in a collision with the Carnarvon, and it sank. It was uninsured, and a great financial loss. This was in 1860. David himself was an inventor, amongst other things. He had patents registered in 1859-60 (with redidence listed as 'of Bombay, India, and of Northumberland'), and 1860-61 (with residence listed as 'of Northumberland') for cotton bale presses. He also patented a rock crusher. He lost an arm in one of his machines, and cleverly fashioned himself a ceramic prosthesis. The marriage certificate in November 1848, of David White Ridley Turnbull lists him as a Sugar Planter, residence currently of this parish (St John, Newcastle). The Newcastle Courant, reporting on the marriage said he was of Porto Rico (sic). Both the wedding certificate & the newspaper say his father was a Robert Turnbull & Robert White Ridley Turnbull. This part only, is difficult to fathom. In the 1851 census, he is living with his parents-in-law Henry & Mary Middleton, at the Railway Station, Wallsend, Northumberland, and his wife Frances. Son David (David Henry) is not with them then, and David's occupation is listed as "West India Planter". Age 23, one year older than Frances, but this makes him born 1828ish. In this census, his surname is Turnbull. Ages were approximated to the nearest 5 yrs in those early censuses. A Planter was a sugar plantation owner/manager. In the 1861 census, living in Elswick, Newcastle upon Tyne,with the surname of Stewart, he is listed as being a 'Civil Engineer', born 'in Scotland, circa 1825'. He has a Cuban servant, and daughter Frances was said twice in the 1861 census to have been born in Cuba. I will presume this was an emergency stop, enroute to Puerto Rico. Since Cuba was definitely NOT a British colony then, and Puerto Rico was connected with USA, and more affable to UK 'travellers'. Need to try searches there. In the 1861 census, daughter Frances is now of surname Stewart, and staying with grandparents Henry & Mary Middleton. David was the owner of the thoroughbred racehorse "Joey Jones" which won the Northumberland Plate from 1860 to 1863. The prize was quite a bit of money, then, and of course, horse riding was one of the main means of transportation. The newspaper records only name him as Mr Stewart of Newcastle. He would have had a trainer, and would most likely not have done the training himself. Joey Jones also won the Tyne Handicap in 1860. Alice Florence nee Nicholls, his daughter in law, had a silk print of that horse until the 1930s when it 'broke'. The family tomb at Old Jesmond cemetery says he lies here, as of 2nd December 1864. His mother, Isabella Stewart Turnbull 1801 - 12 Oct 1860, lies there too, and two of his children Francis James Stewart & Margaret Jessie Stewart. FJ died in Sep. 1859 in the red sea off the coast of Aden, which on the way to the Suez Canal or the coast of Africa. David supposedly died at sea, off Bombay, when his ship went down. The family (or some of them) were already in India at that time, according to Elizabeth O'Grady,his daughter-in-law, and he was returning from somewhere after having concluded some business sales. It was thought that maybe land sales in the West Indies may have been the nature. The ship went down with the loss of the family's money from these deals, and David was last seen hanging on to a bag of diamonds. He drowned just before a rescue boat reached him. His sea chest and writing box survived, and by the 1930s, ended up in the care of the Miller & Whinfield families. Lela says in a different letter that it was his own boat that sank this time. (she may be right, or she may have it mixed up with the 'Fanny's sinking in 1860) If he died in December 1864, as on the tomb, it could explain why the youngest child, Louisa Bigger Stewart who was born in May that year, could have been adopted out. On the other hand, there's no paper record in UK or in India of his death, at land or sea, of his death at that time. Other letters from Elizabeth nee O'Grady, suggest he was alive circa 1870. His daughter Frances' wedding certificate in June 1876 lists him as a wine merchant, but this must be a transcription error, as her husband is also listed as one. DTS is not listed as deceased. We need to recheck the original transcript in Newcastle, rather than the Somerset House, London record, which I have, which must be in error. I cannot quite see them bringing his body by boat back from India, to UK, for burial back then, but maybe they did. [now I know he drowned in 1871] The tomb does not hold his wife, Frances nee Middleton, nor does it mention his father, though it calls itself the 'family burial place of David T Stewart'. Maybe Frances was actually buried in Bombay though I could find no death record in her name there.. The husband of DTS's mother Isabella, was David Turnbull, and he was still alive in Newcastle in late 1861. His profession was "shipwright". Was there a 'falling out' with the father? Did it have something to do with the name? Turnbull fades out and Middleton fades in among some of his children 1855-70. Joey Jones, the horse, was the subject and title of a 'geordie' song, (A Geordie song is an old Newcastle district folk song). Joey Jones by George Ridley (Tune= Pat of Mullingar ) Aw'm gan ti sing ye a sang, If ye'll but list ti' me Aw divent intent ti'keep ye lang, An' that ye'll plainly see; Its all aboot young Joey Jones He wun the Northumberland Plate, He was bred at Deckham Hall, Just up throo the gate Chorus: For he jogs along, he canter'd along, He lick'd them all see fine, He was bred at Gyetshead, He's the pride of Coaly Tyne. Joey ran at the spring meetings. He was beaten by the Jim, Hadlow, that belangs Gaylad, Said Joey wasn't game; So they sent him off ti' Richmond, Twas known he wasn't right, Then Watson fetched him here, An' gov them a regular Yorkshire bite. Noo when the horses started, An' was cumin past the stand, Sum shooted oot for Peggy Taft, And some for Underhand; An' when they reached the top o' the hill, Doyle heard Tom Aldercroft say Aw dare lay a fiver that Aw win thi' plate thi-day! Cumin roond he Morpeth turn, Joey keepin' up his fame Says Doyle ti Tommy Aldcroft- Noo wha's yor little game? Says Aldcroft-Aw mean ti' win The Plate this very day! Yes but says Doyle it's Joey Jones, A fiver aw will lay. Number eleven was puttin up. The people stood amazed. Fobert he luiked vary white, An Jackson almost crazed; Little Osborne luiked for his Wildman, An'Sharpe for Volatile Doefoot got a nasty kick, An' Joey wun in style. - Aw'm gan ti sing ye a sang, If ye'll but list ti' me Aw divent intent ti'keep ye lang, An' that ye'll plainly see; Its all aboot young Joey Jones He wun the Northumberland Plate, He was bred at Deckham Hall, Just up throo the gate Chorus: For he jogs along, he canter'd along, He lick'd them all see fine, He was bred at Gyetshead, He's the pride of Coaly Tyne. Joey ran at the spring meetings. He was beaten by the Jim, Hadlow, that belangs Gaylad, Said Joey wasn't game; So they sent him off ti' Richmond, Twas known he wasn't right, Then Watson fetched him here, An' gov them a regular Yorkshire bite. Noo when the horses started, An' was cumin past the stand, Sum shooted oot for Peggy Taft, And some for Underhand; An' when they reached the top o' the hill, Doyle heard Tom Aldercroft say Aw dare lay a fiver that Aw win thi' plate thi-day! Cumin roond he Morpeth turn, Joey keepin' up his fame Says Doyle ti Tommy Aldcroft- Noo wha's yor little game? Says Aldcroft-Aw mean ti' win The Plate this very day! Yes but says Doyle it's Joey Jones, A fiver aw will lay. Number eleven was puttin up. The people stood amazed. Fobert he luiked vary white, An Jackson almost crazed; Little Osborne luiked for his Wildman, An'Sharpe for Volatile Doefoot got a nasty kick, An' Joey wun in style. ------------------- I hope that helps-I'd love to hear your version of the curse legend. I'll add more stuff in a following email. Phoning might be useful, but at the moment my ears are full of wax & I can't hear much. The quiet is wonderful for me, but not for the family! Love, Ian PS I have the family unbroken up to David Turnbull born 1804, then further back on his father-in-law William Stewart's side to 1770ish. I recently bought a couple of books on Stewart genealogy- one was published in 1922 and cost me close to $100, but it's not bad. I'll scan the relvant pages sometime. I have omitted Craigiehall lineage in what I've said, as I'm trying to work with facts that are so far proven. I'm infuenced by legend as far as it might direct me to further answers,but have only written what I have proven links to. JamaicanGovernors pre1880.txt English Commanders of Jamaica (1655-1661) In 1655, an English force led by Admiral Sir William Penn, and General Robert Venables Robert Venables Robert Venables , was a soldier during the English Civil War and noted angler.Venables was lieutenant-colonel in the parliamentary army. He was wounded at Chester in 1645. He was appointed governor of Liverpool in 1648. He served with success in Ireland from 1649 until 1654... seized the island, and successfully held it against Spanish attempts to retake it over the next few years. * Admiral Sir William Penn 11 May 1655–1655 * General Robert Venables Robert Venables Robert Venables , was a soldier during the English Civil War and noted angler.Venables was lieutenant-colonel in the parliamentary army. He was wounded at Chester in 1645. He was appointed governor of Liverpool in 1648. He served with success in Ireland from 1649 until 1654... , 1655 * Edward D'Oyley, 1655–1656, first time * William Brayne, 1656–1657 * Edward D'Oyley, 1657–1661, second time English Governors of Jamaica (1661-1662) In 1661, England began colonisation of the island. * Edward D'Oyley, 1661–August 1662, continued * Thomas, Lord Windsor Thomas Hickman-Windsor, 1st Earl of Plymouth Thomas Hickman-Windsor, 1st Earl of Plymouth, PC succeeded to his family's estate around Hewell Grange near Redditch in 1645, the same year he distinguished himself in the Battle of Naseby... , August 1662–November 1662 Deputy Governors of Jamaica (1662-1671) * Charles Lyttleton Sir Charles Lyttelton, 3rd Baronet Sir Charles Lyttelton, 3rd Baronet was the second son of Sir Thomas Lyttelton, 1st Baronet. He inherited the baronetcy and the family estates in Frankley, Halesowen, Hagley, and Upper Arley on the death of his brother Sir Henry Lyttelton, 2nd Baronet in 1693... , 1662–1663, acting * Thomas Lynch, 1663–1664, acting, first time * Edward Morgan, 1664 * Sir Thomas Modyford Thomas Modyford Colonel Sir Thomas Modyford, 1st Baronet, was a planter of Barbados and Governor of Jamaica, 1664-70.Modyford was the son of a mayor of Exeter with family connections to the Duke of Albemarle, who emigrated to Barbados as a young man with other family members in 1647, in the opening stages of the... , 1664–August 1671 Lieutenant Governors of Jamaica (1671-1690) In 1670, the Treaty of Madrid Treaty of Madrid (1670) The Treaty of Madrid adopted in 1670 was a treaty between England and Spain. Under the terms of the treaty, Spain recognized English possessions in the Caribbean Sea: "all those lands, islands, colonies and places whatsoever situated in the West Indies." England took formal control of Jamaica and... legitimised English claim to the island. * Sir Thomas Lynch, August 1671–November 1674, second time * Sir Henry Morgan Henry Morgan Admiral Sir Henry Morgan , was a Welsh privateer, who made a name in the Caribbean... , 1674–1675, acting, first time * John Vaughan John Vaughan, 3rd Earl of Carbery John Vaughan, 3rd Earl of Carbery FRS was Governor of Jamaica between 1675–1678 and President of the Royal Society between 1686–1689, having been elected a Fellow in 1685.... , 1675–1678 * Sir Henry Morgan Henry Morgan Admiral Sir Henry Morgan , was a Welsh privateer, who made a name in the Caribbean... , 1678, acting, second time * The Earl of Carlisle Charles Howard, 1st Earl of Carlisle Charles Howard, 1st Earl of Carlisle , was an English politician and military leader.The first in the Howard line of earls, he was the son and heir of Sir William Howard, of Naworth in Cumberland, by Mary, daughter of William, Lord Eure, and great-grandson of Lord William Howard, "Belted Will"... , 1678–1680 * Sir Captain Morgan Captain Morgan This article is about a brand of rum. For the Welsh privateer, see Sir Henry MorganCaptain Morgan is a brand of rum produced by Diageo. It is named after the 17th-century Caribbean privateer from Wales, Sir Henry Morgan... , 1680–1682, acting, third time * Sir Thomas Lynch, 1682–1684, third time * Hender Molesworth, 1684–December 1687, acting * The Duke of Albermarle Christopher Monck, 2nd Duke of Albemarle Christopher Monck, 2nd Duke of Albemarle, KG, PC was an English statesman and failed soldier.He was the son of George Monck, 1st Duke of Albemarle.... , 1687–1688 * Hender Molesworth, 1688–1689, acting * Francis Watson, 1689–1690, acting Governors of Jamaica (1691-1962) from http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Governors_of_Jamaica * The Earl of Inchiquin William O'Brien, 2nd Earl of Inchiquin William O'Brien was an Irish nobleman, the 2nd Earl of Inchiquin. O'Brien was the son of Murrough O'Brien, 1st Earl of Inchiquin and Elisabeth St. Leger.... , 1690–1691 * John White, 1691–1692, acting * John Burden, 1692–1693, acting * Sir William Beeston, March 1693–January 1702, acting to 1699 * William Selwyn, 1702 * Peter Beckford Peter Beckford Colonel Peter Beckford was acting Governor of Jamaica in 1702.Peter was the son of another Peter Beckford, of Maidenhead. Sir Thomas Beckford, Sheriff of London was his uncle as was Captain Richard Beckford, who was trading in Jamaica from 1659... , 1702, acting * Thomas Handasyde, 1702–1711, acting to 1704 * Lord Archibald Hamilton Lord Archibald Hamilton Lord Archibald Hamilton was a British politician.Hamilton was the youngest son of William Douglas-Hamilton, Duke of Hamilton and Anne Hamilton, 3rd Duchess of Hamilton. He became a Captain in the Royal Navy and in 1708, was elected as MP for Lanarkshire... , 1711–1716 * Peter Heywood, 1716–1718 * Sir Nicholas Lawes Nicholas Lawes Sir Nicholas Lawes was Governor of Jamaica from 1718 to 1722.He was a British knight.In his capacity as Governor during the Golden Age of Piracy he tried many pirates, among them "Calico Jack" Rackham, Anne Bonny, Mary Read, Robert Deal, & Charles Vane.He was the father of James Lawes.In 1730 he... , 1718–1722 * The Duke of Portland Henry Bentinck, 1st Duke of Portland Henry Bentinck, 1st Duke of Portland , styled Viscount Woodstock from 1689 until 1709, was a British politician and colonial statesman.... , 1722–4 July 1726 * John Ayscough, 1726–1728, acting, first time * Robert Hunter Robert Hunter (general) General Robert Hunter was colonial governor of New York and New Jersey from 1710 to 1720.A Scott, Hunter had been apprenticed to an apothecary before running away to join the British Army. He became an officer, married a woman of high rank. He was a man of business whose first address to the... , 1728–March 1734 * John Ayscough, 1734–1735, acting, second time * John Gregory, 1735, acting, first time * Henry Cunninghame, 1735–1736 * John Gregory, 1736–1738, acting, second time * Edward Trelawny, 1738–1752 * Charles Knowles, 1752–January 1756 * Sir Henry Moore, February 1756–April 1756, acting, first time * George Haldane, April 1756–November 1759 * Sir Henry Moore, November 1759–1762, acting, second time * Sir William Lyttleton, 1762–1766 * Roger Hope Elletson, 1766–1767 * Sir William Trelawny Sir William Trelawny, 6th Baronet Sir William Trelawny, 6th Baronet , was a British politician and colonial administrator.Trelawny sat as Member of Parliament for West Looe from 1757 to 1767. The latter year he was appointed Governor of Jamaica, a post he held until his death in December 1772. Trelawny Parish, Jamaica was named... , 1767–December 1772 * John Dalling, December 1772–1774, acting, first time * Sir Basil Keith, 1774–1777 * John Dalling, 1777–1781, second time * Archibald Campbell, 1781–1784, acting to 1783 * Alured Clarke Alured Clarke Field-marshal Sir Alured Clarke was an officer of the British army, lieutenant governor of the colonial Province of Quebec, and civil administrator of Lower Canada... , 1784–1790 * The Earl of Effingham, 1790–19 November 1791 * Sir Adam Williamson, 1791–1795, acting * The Earl of Balcarres, 1795–1801 * Sir George Nugent, 1801–1805 * Sir Eyre Coote Eyre Coote (the Younger) General Eyre Coote was a British soldier and politician who was born in Ireland.-Background:He was the second son of Charles Coote , DD, Dean of Kilfenora, brother of Charles Henry Coote , who succeeded the last Earl of Mountrath as 2nd... , 1806–1808 * The Duke of Manchester William Montagu, 5th Duke of Manchester Colonel William Montagu, 5th Duke of Manchester , styled Viscount Mandeville until 1783, was a British peer, soldier, colonial administrator and politician.-Background and education:... , 1808–1821 * Sir John Keane John Keane, 1st Baron Keane John Keane, 1st Baron Keane, GCB, GCH was a British soldier.Keane was born in Belmont, Ireland, the second son of Sir John Keane, 1st Baronet. He joined the British Army as an Ensign at age 11 in 1792. He rose the rank of Lieutenant Colonel in the 60th Foot and commanded a brigade in the... , 1827–1829, acting * The Earl Belmore Somerset Lowry-Corry, 2nd Earl Belmore Somerset Lowry-Corry, 2nd Earl Belmore , styled The Honourable from 1781 to 1797 and then known as Viscount Corry to 1802, was an Irish nobleman and politician.... , 1829–1832 * George Cuthbert, 1832, acting, first time * The Earl of Mulgrave Constantine Phipps, 1st Marquess of Normanby Constantine Henry Phipps, 1st Marquess of Normanby KG GCB GCH, PC , known as Viscount Normanby from 1812 to 1831 and as the Earl of Mulgrave from 1831 to 1838, was a British Whig politician and author... , 1832–1834 * Sir Amos Norcot, 1834, acting * George Cuthbert, 1834, acting, second time * The Marquess of Sligo, 1834–1836 * Sir Lionel Smith, 1836–1839 * Sir Charles Theophilus Metcalfe, 1839–1842 * The Earl of Elgin James Bruce, 8th Earl of Elgin James Bruce, 8th Earl of Elgin and 12th Earl of Kincardine KT, GCB, PC was a British colonial administrator and diplomat, he was the Governor General of the Province of Canada, a High Commissioner in charge of opening trades with China and Japan, and Viceroy of India.Most notably he had helped... , 1842–1846 * George Henry Frederick Berkeley, 1846–1847, acting * Sir Charles Edward Grey Charles Edward Grey Sir Charles Edward Grey, GCH, PC was a British judge in India and colonial governor.Grey was the second son of Ralph William Grey , a barrister, of Backworth House, Earsdon, Northumberland, and his wife, Elizabeth, daughter of Charles Brandling MP, of Gosforth House, Northumberland... , 1847–1853 * Sir Henry Barkly Henry Barkly Sir Henry Barkly, GCMG, KCB, FRS, FRGS was a British politician, colonial governor and patron of the sciences.-Early life and education:... , 1853–1856 * Edward Wells Bell, 1856–1857, acting * Charles Henry Darling Charles Henry Darling Sir Charles Henry Darling KCB colonial governor born Annapolis Royal, Nova Scotia and died 7 Lansdowne Crescent, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England.... , 1857–1862 * Edward John Eyre Edward John Eyre Edward John Eyre was an English land explorer of the Australian continent, colonial administrator, and a controversial Governor of Jamaica.... , 1862–1865, acting to 1864 * Sir Henry Knight Storks Henry Knight Storks Sir Henry Knight Storks GCMG GCB was a British soldier and colonial governor.Educated at Charterhouse School, he entered the Army on January 10 1828 as an ensign of the 61st Regiment of Foot. He was promoted lieutenant on March 2 1832, exchanged to the 14th Regiment of Foot on March 23 1832, and... , 12 December 1865–16 July 1866 * Sir John Peter Grant, 1866–1874 * W. A. G. Young, 1874, acting * Sir William Grey, 1874–January 1877 * Edward Everard Rushworth Mann, January 1877, acting * Sir Anthony Musgrave Anthony Musgrave Sir Anthony Musgrave KCMG was a colonial administrator and governor. He was born at St John’s, Antigua, the third of 11 children of Anthony Musgrave and Mary Harris Sheriff... , January 1877–1883 * Somerset M. Wiseman Clarke, 1883, acting * Dominic Jacotin Gamble, 1883, acting * Sir Henry Wylie Norman Henry Wylie Norman Field Marshal Sir Henry Wylie Norman GCB, GCMG, CIE , Field Marshal and colonial Governor.-Early life:He was born 2 December 1826, only son of James Norman, merchant, and his wife Charlotte, née Wylie.... , 1883–1889 JamaicanGovernors pre1880.txt Content-Type: text/plain Content-Encoding: base64